Continue the Search

[Chris Wilck]

If you have ever had doubts regarding your belief in God, you may have felt as if you are the only one who has experienced these doubts. You are not alone. It is just that people are embarrassed or afraid to tell anyone about what they are feeling and thinking. As an agnostic, I have experienced those same feelings.

I have just finished reading two books dealing with the subject of finding faith when you have doubts regarding God. Both of the authors are clergy who are agnostics– this is a coincidence that I chose to read two books authored by clergy. One grew up in a religious home; the other did not. One took a more scientific point of view regarding his faith; the other a more personal view. Both, at one time or another, have felt that they were alone in their search for understanding God, Ultimate Reality, Ultimate Mystery, or whatever term we may use to describe the “truth” about our existence. So, even those who have had formal training in theology may have doubts.

Ever since I was in the 3rd grade, I have felt this inner force or desire (an innate spirituality) to understand God or the Ultimate Truth. You might say, “What does an 8 year old 3rd grader know about understanding God?”. To that I would say, “What does a 45 year old college graduate know about understanding God?”. The point that I am trying to make is we do our best to interpret the Universe (capital U) to the best of our ability.

Humans are just not capable of completely understanding the Ultimate Mystery. We do the best that we can with the intellectual capacity that we have. Sometimes we just don’t know the answer– mere words can not describe or explain all aspects of the Universe. Some may call me a heretic, and have a right to their belief.

Even as an agnostic, I believe that in order for me to attempt to understand and know God to the best of my ability, I need to keep searching and asking questions. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says, “...Seek and ye shall find...” (KJV). ( Why I chose the King James translation, I don’t know. Possibly because it is more poetic.) Whether or not you believe that the Bible is God’s word, this advise is invaluable. No matter what your beliefs are, don’t be complacent. Continue the search for Ultimate Truth– even if you think you have found it. The search will nourish your spirit. At the very least you will understand yourself, other seekers and the world a little better. Ultimately, you might find a more meaningful connection with God.

[Seth C. Burgess]

Sounds like a theme for a good small group!

I think you did a great job here kind of summing up the type of spirituality that knows no borders--cultural, geographical, religious, etc.--that is the most important part of any faith "group", like perhaps the people of Park Church as a whole.

Receiving the Bible as a source of moral guidance and "life lessons" is an appealing perspective, which seems to be the angle you take here. I think the idea of developing a personal relationship with God is sort of the same as this continuous search for truth--working on an understanding of what our place is in the world, or in the lives of all the other people we have the opportunity to touch.

Religion or faith as a framework for this "borderless" spirituality, then?

[Chris Wilck]

That's a loaded question, Seth-- asking an agnostic to choose between religion and faith as a framework for this "borderless" spirituality. :) I guess I would have to say faith would be the better framework for this. One does not have to adhere to a specific religion in order to have faith; want to develop faith; want to understand faith; or admit they do not have faith. (Anyone who feels a sense of spiritual connection could be comfortable with this.)

Not sure I would say my view of the Bible is that of a source for moral guidance--just look at the Old Testament. (We could get into a whole new discussion regarding hyprocrisy if we were to examine that viewpoint.) I prefer to think of the Bible as more of a source for "life lessons". The New Testament has always been more appealing to me--excluding Revelations. (What a different world we would have if even part of Jesus' teachings were followed--giving of ourselves to those in need and accepting those people, most view as unacceptable. (Okay, now you've got me thinking about this framework thing again!)

Developing a relationship with God and keeping it alive and vibrant are two different things. In my opinion, one can develop a relationship with God and never allow the relationship to change during the course of their lifetime. I think the continuous search for Truth would allow the relationship to evolve as we go through life's experiences.

I'm not sure how I feel about Park Church being a summation of this borderless spirituality. We may have to discuss this at another time.

Anytime you want to do the small group, just let me know.

[Seth C. Burgess]

I like the idea of Faith as the bigger picture item that it benefits us all to find, nourish, and live with on an every day basis.

Religion gives us a way, or a method, to approach a livable Faith. So my thoughts on this lead me to believe that churches, as communities of people exploring Faith through a common method, are a good thing.

I also enjoy thinking that while the Presbyterian Church--or other denominations of any religion--certainly have agreed upon views or stances on their particular brand of Faith, that in our own local churches it is normal for variation in thought and individual differences.

For me, I find value in the model of the Trinity. I can think of God the Creator, the master architect of all nature and people and the interactions between them (leaving room for science in this of course). I can think of Jesus the Teacher, a person who was like me yet I am not quite like him--he modeled a way that a person might follow to approach an earthly life full of purpose, and passion, approaching the divine. And I can think of the Holy Spirit as that which makes me from God, and of God, and that within me which connects me to the rest of world around me.

Others principles which I believe central to my experience of Faith are accepting an authority in the Bible, yet not a literal, word-for-word authority. By doing this as a Faith group, we have a common language consisting of stories and lessons around which to focus our conversations with each other and God, and a sort of "open manual" for spiritual development. And the concept of Grace by following in the footsteps of Jesus (teacher/model/purpose/passion/connectedness)--to the best of our ability--is beautiful.

[Chris Wilck]

For whatever reason, I did not post this when I wrote it. Someone asked me today if the discussion had continued--they had enjoyed reading our discussion, but hadn't been on-line in a while. So here is my reply:

I agree that religion provides a way for us to approach a livable Faith. Churches–-communities of Faith–-are a “good thing” for most traditional seekers/believers. Belonging to a church community can be a very rewarding experience for most people as long as the church is meeting their “needs”. (Although my views may be a bit “unorthodox”, I still find comfort in “the church” and find traditional services spiritually renewing–-possibly because I grew up in “the church”.) But for some people, church can be a “turn-off”.

People give a variety of reasons for not attending church. The three reasons that standout the most to me are:

1. I do not “know enough” about religion to attend church.

2. The church–-organized religion–- is not meeting my spiritual needs.

3. The church–- with its doctrines–- will condemn me for my
transgressions. Why should I go to church and feel worse when I leave
than I do right now?


Most main-line churches have seen a decrease in attendance–- losing “old members”(for whatever reason) and not gaining new members. The conundrum is how do main-line churches, such as ours, find a way to meet the spiritual needs of people, and reach out to the unchurched in a non-threatening manner, without compromising the church’s beliefs and traditions?

[Gil Burgess]

Although a lot of people may for some reason rebel at the idea, there's a reason that Jesus said that we have to "receive the kingdom of God like a little child" (Luke 18:17 , Matthew 18:3). He gave us guidelines by which to live and to do that well is difficult enough. Not only is it unnecessary for us to "understand" God, it simply is not possible or we wouldn't be human and God wouldn't be God!

[Chris Wilck]

(This is not an attack against anyone or their beliefs.)

First of all, I am not rebelling against God (...and the Word was God. John 1:1). Just because my journey towards Ultimate Truth is different from another person's journey, does not make it any less meaningful and heartfelt.

You say there's a reason that Jesus said we have to "receive the Kingdom of God like a little child", but you never specify what that reason is. (Side note: Some translations use "as" instead of "like"; when taken out of context, that part of the verse has a new meaning.)

Isn't part of being "like a little child" having a sense of awe and wonder about the world? Learning is also part of being like a child. (Didn't the disciples call Jesus, "Teacher"? The disciples did not know all of the answers, therefore they asked their "Teacher". Like the disciples, I have questions--mine are different because I live in a different world than they did 2000 years ago.)

Because I am human, I humbly admit to God that I know I am not capable of completely understanding the Universe. I do have many questions and will continue to ask these questions in spite of my inability to understand. If a loving and omniscient God created me, why should I be condemned for being the way She (never know which pronoun to use) knew that She was creating me--analytical and questioning.

In regard to God, what would you tell someone who has only known abuse from a parent? Should that person be told that as God's child, they have to come to God, the Father, and trust Him because that's just the way it is? Why would anyone in that situation want to (or be able to) trust this Father?

If you read my reply to the Faithless discussion, you will find that I state my belief in a Force greater than myself. I further say that I feel a spiritual connection with "my" God in certain settings--walking along an ocean beach, watching a sunrise or sitting on a mountain. If this Force is the God of the Bible, then I am experiencing God's grace when I am surrounded by nature. I don't deserve it, yet I am allowed to experience it.

Why do I feel this spiritual connection? I want to have a meaningful relationship with this God. If it takes me questioning my beliefs and God in order to find this relationship, that's exactly what I will do.

By the way, I never said that I was content being an agnostic. The Ultimate Reality may not be the vengeful God of the Old Testament that I was told that I had to believe in as a child--that's one of the reasons why I continue the search.

[Seth C. Burgess]

A "sense of awe and wonderment about the world" is key, I agree! Perhaps some might consider that very phrase to be the essence of the Grace of God.

It is interesting to me to note that some of my favorite people to "argue" with are agnostic, by self-label or by action...

...I think it's because of a prevailing "openness"--an ability to accept something as true if it fits or works for that individual person (for the time being), a healthy willingness to challenge something if it's not working for them, and a propensity to consider the arguments of others.

It seems to me that the act of thinking itself, and thoughtful argument, and maintaining an evolving and current Faith are some of the most important things that we all might do.

[Seth C. Burgess]

Perhaps the idea of "Search" can be accompanied by "Doubt". In a Speaking of Faith podcast I am listening to now, a guest suggests that the practice of doubt--throughout history--has enlivened Faith.

Recording attached.